![]() ![]() Section 5: Shotguns Subject: Maverick HS-12 Shotgun Msg# 826861
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Let me try to address your problems with my comments. First, I was reviewing the Mossberg over-under here, and I had no intention of strictly damning all doubles. I think a side by side is a better option than an OU, and I think a lack of ejectors (not extractors as you mentioned, if the Firing Line review is to be believed--TJ didn't address this in his review) takes this particular shotgun out of the game.
It seems you spent the majority of your reply reminding me that the double gun was traditional, had been used for self-defense forever, etc., but that wasn't what I was objecting to primarily. I was objecting to an OU, which is more difficult to sight, and is normally less well-regulated, than a side by side, I believe, with no ejectors. You said that the pump action or semi-auto is going to be more difficult for the beginner or non-gun person. A shotgun without ejectors is going to be more problematic yet. Teaching someone to use a pump is going to be much faster and easier than teaching someone to quickly and easily eject two spent shells manually then reload two fresh shells and get back into action. Which leads me to what was probably an unfortunate choice of words on my part--better technology. I should have explained what I meant or used another term. All I meant was that there seems to be no convincing reason to use a two-shooter when you can use a repeater that holds 5-6-7-8 or more rounds without reloading. If we are truly concerned about a shotgun for a beginner or non-gunny individual, then reloading under stress has to be something to consider--they are going to be very poor at accomplishing that task. I won't change my opinion here. A double is not my primary choice for anyone. If someone insists on a double it should be a modern gun with ejectors. The incredible popularity of cowboy action shooting has flooded the market with doubles sans ejectors so the prospective buyer must shop carefully for his self-defense double. And in my opinion, if he is going to spend several hundred dollars for a gimmicky shotgun like the Mossberg Maverick HS-12 OU, he would be smarter to spend the same kind of money on a plain jane 12g pump with a brass bead and a 18.5" cylinder bore barrel. Then he should purchase a case of #7 1/2 birdshot or larger if so inclined, and at least a brick of self-defense ammo. The birdshot is for acclimation and to learn to shoot the pump gun without short-stroking it, the only real issue with a pump. The self-defense ammo is for patterning at various ranges based on measured distances within his own home, the remaining stash for use in the gun and occasional refresher practice. You, Troy, are not a beginner. Use what works for you, but don't transfer your expertise to a beginner because he won't have it. While you can handle the double gun with ease, you shouldn't assume a beginner can as well. And as for your own situation, I only have one comment but it is very important in my mind and I hope you take it to heart. I really believe that anyone who thinks they can analyze the situation--the attack, the home invasion, whatever it is--on the fly, and pick and choose his weaponry based on the feedback he's getting, is mistaken. These events evolve more quickly than we can imagine, far more quickly than we picture them based on what we've read in fiction or seen in movies, where people have time to go to their arms lockers, where the good guys have time to analyze the attack and make plans to respond. If one doesn't have the weapons, the ammunition, and a plan ready the moment something happens, he's not going to have time to get it later. If you start fighting with a particular weapon, the only way you'll get another is to fight your way to it using the weapon you have in your hands--and that is something you should not count on being able to do. That's my piece. For what it's worth. |
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For reference, the above message is a reply to a message where: A good shooter can make anything work better than it should, but with better technology available, why limit yourself?In a self-defense situation you're going to have enough problems already without dealing with those of your own making. the above quote gives me trouble. first, a "good shooter" can make anything work. I see the double as defense as not necessarily being for the good shooter or accomplished shooter. I have known a number of non-shotgun folks who for one reason or another struggled with a pump gun and were either unwilling or unable to practice enough to make one run well in the middle of the night when the glass breaks. for them a double is a viable option. "with better technology available" I have problems with this one as well. The pump shotgun is anything but cutting edge technology. i would assume cutting edge would be some clip fed semi auto. the technology conundrum is always present in gunning, there is always something that someone says is better, faster, stronger. but that doesnt mean it is best, and it certainly doesnt mean it is best for everyone. the double is about as old as firearm technology can get, and it has been used in a short barrel format for almost as long as it has been around, and for self defense. I find it arrogant to think that the most vetted form of self defense in the firearm world, that has successfully been used by solider, sailor, farmer, wife for hundreds of years, can somehow now be dismissed as no longer relevant. it is relevant. what mossberg and a couple of others have attempted to do is tweak it a bit. now I am not certain they succeeded. but i understand the temptation to modify something that has performed admirably for centuries. i own pumps,a semi and a double. My choice for middle of the night glass breaking is a double. I can deploy it faster, fire off 2 rounds faster, not have to worry about pumping or slide release but can concentrate on target acquisition and whether or not to shoot. If a HORDE of evil comes into my house, i will quickly determine the double is outclassed, true. I might attempt to reload or merely drop the firearm. But in numerous scenarios and conditions, I , who have been a shotgunner since I was 12, feel a double works better in that situation. I also think a beginner or one who is willing to commit to a minimum of practice might find that a better solution as well. Perhaps not in the format offered, (not sure on nonextactor o/u for defense) but the double should not be dismissed. until the revival of the cowboy shooters there really havent been affordable doubles out there that could serve in that duty, without some hunting and some smithing. |